What Lies Beneath will premiere at The Explosives Factory, TheatreWorks as part of Melbourne Fringe and run between 14-18 October 2025.

The play is inspired by women’s lived experiences of menarche (first bleeding) and menopause (the great pause). It traverses the sacred thresholds of becoming, unravelling, and returning and is woven around the myth of Persephone and Demeter.

A conversation between Charlotte Young (Relationship Counsellor, Writer and Celebration Day for Girls Facilitator) and Sarah Miller, (Emerging playwright, Menstrual & Menopause Educator, Frame Drum Maker)

Tickets: https://www.theatreworks.org.au/2025/what-lies-beneath

Fundraising to support the Creative Development of the play: https://artists.australianculturalfund.org.au/s/project/a2EMn00000QzM33/what-lies-beneath

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Charlotte: What interested you in writing about the menstrual cycle and menopause

Sarah: We live in a culture which stigmatizes menstruation and menopause. Though there are definitely some positive shifts, the taboo still exists. A consequence of the taboo is shame, shame which is internalised. So, I wanted to write about the power of menstruation, about the whole cycle, and of our rites of passage. I wanted to share some of the wisdom that comes with our descent, with menstruation and menopause.

What drew you to the myth of Persephone and Demeter then?

This ancient myth from Thrace and Greece holds many keys to understanding cyclical wisdom. It is a celebration of the seasons, of growth, abundance and life above ground, and also about descent, decay, compost and life underground.  The myth honours both. I love that. Since learning more about the menstrual cycle (through the School of Shamanic Womancraft) and seeing the relationship between the cycles of life/death/life in the earth body and in our own bodies, I wondered if this relationship was once part of the myth. I wanted to investigate ways to bring that exploration to the retelling.

When did you first became aware of the powerful mythology, and when did they really land for you in terms of speaking to you personally.

When I was starting my perimenopausal journey, Jane, (Jane Hardwicke Collins) sent me a book, Travelling with Pomegranates by Sue Monk Kidd and her daughter, Anne Kidd Taylor.  In this story, they travel together to Eleusis, where Demeter is said to have rested in her search for her daughter. The myth of Demeter and Persephone is woven throughout their story. And central to the story is the descent of Persephone and Demeter’s grief at her loss. There was a scene in the book in which the author and mother, Sue is describing the pain she feels around the changed relationship with her daughter.  I was so struck by her description of grief. I felt met by her acknowledgment of this grief and loss.

At the time, my daughter was 14, and going through her own, hormonal fluctuations, as a teenager.  This dance of a menstruating daughter, a perimenopausal mother, and grief at our changing relationship was prominent. Grief for the planet too. Sometimes overwhelming grief for the ways in which we are not living in right relationship with the earth and the consequent loss of species, ecosystems and loss of our own deep connection to country, to earth, to life.

So, the myth of Demeter losing her daughter really spoke to me as a way to explore grief.

It sounds like a great book, and a very powerful kind of transformation for you. You know, because we need all the support we can get going through this massive transformation, so I guess that makes me think of the question around what you’re hoping for with this play… it’s obviously a creative expression, but in terms of giving something back to the community, what’s your hope?

Its actually multi-pronged. There are so many threads, but the one that we’ve just been talking about, it’s to honour the grief of the shifting relationship between mother and daughter, between parent and child. So, on one level, yes, it’s for, women, to be met in that huge space of change and transformation within themselves. But this grief is not just for those experiencing menopause. There’s such grief all over the world right now. I truly believe that the narratives, the dominant narratives are contributing to our sense of separation, isolation, menstrual shame and climate crisis.

I think rituals that honour grief are so important, and yet many of these have also been lost and purposefully destroyed. The Eleusinian Mysteries which were processional rituals based on this myth occurred for over 2000 years in Ancient Greece, until they were banned. They were ritualised spaces for embodying the grief and joy of the life/death/life cycle.

I wanted to bring some of the ritual aspects to the stage too. I am collaborating with wonderful artists including Rosa Voto and Ria Soemardjo who can bring drumming, lamenting, singing and dance to this story. I hope that the ceremonial aspects of these creative offerings which are woven through the play can offer people a way into deeper relationship with the themes, and with ritual more generally.

I am curious about what rituals might we offer for our Climate grief? What rituals might help us sing up a world in which menstruation, the whole menstrual cycle and menopause are celebrated?  For me ceremony, ritual, drumming, dancing, are part of what makes us human. And so I want people to come away with a sense of possibility and hope. I want people to have a sense of the arts as deeply meaningful. I want the power of menstruation, of descent to help connect us back to Earth and her rhythms. But even as I say this, I also want the play to be open to interpretation. I want people to imagine for themselves, to come away with curiosity and feeling.  And the Director, Cassandra Fumi is really helping create this opening into interpretation.

As you were talking, I guess it’s also from the Persephone viewpoint as daughter.

Yes, this is Persephone’s story.  I wanted to give her a voice and let her be on that journey of discovering the power of descent. To reflect and grow into a journey of becoming. What is it for her to individuate? What is it for her to grapple with desires coursing through her body? What is it to then descend into the dark, into a place that’s totally unknown? And who does she rely on? Who does she call on?

The actress Daphne Gerolymou Papadopoulos who plays Persephone is fantastic and has been offering herself, her ideas and embodiment to the play. She’s in her 20s and her experiences and curiosities are woven in. The Director Cass Fumi and Dramaturg Cathy Hunt really support this kind of collaborative approach to the script and theatre making. Each of the actors brings their own ideas, energy, gestures and ways of being, and it’s really beautiful witnessing this all unfold.

And I must add that the actress Clare Larman who plays Hekate really inspired me to write Hekate into the story. She is in the ancient myth very fleetingly, but given the subject matter it felt important to honour her role as Goddess of Thresholds, of One Who knows. And Clare is a wonderful Crone! So, it’s her Story too. A story of the triplicity of the ancient Goddesses, and the phases of womanhood, whether or not you identify as woman or as gender diverse. There is much to tease out and explore.

So it sounds like you’re really weaving the… the three altars of womanhood. You know, into the play, like the first blood, then motherhood, and then the last blood. Okay, so this is a big overarching question of how did you experience menopause, and where are you in your menopausal journey?

Well, actually, one thing I want to say is that I experienced perimenopause and menopause through the lens of stories. They held me. There’s that idea of the golden thread, and I was holding onto these story threads when, many things, including myself were falling apart. So, early on, as I was navigating perimenopause,  this myth was really powerful, and it really helped me experience my grief more fully.

Then I got cervical cancer. And so then I had surgical menopause, with the removal of my womb and ovaries. The Myth of Inanna, and Skeleton Woman helped me navigate the huge transition that was surgical menopause.

Menopause is this powerful initiation. And so we need the stories of our elders, of those who’ve come before us. I have some beautiful elders around me, which has been really wonderful, but those stories offered another layer of holding and wisdom.

It’s 7 years since I lost my womb and ovaries, so 7 years menopausal woman, and…Yeah, I’m loving it now. I love being in this stage of my life. It’s really beautiful. And hey I get to celebrate this 7 year point with the production of a play I have written, working alongside an incredible cast and crew!

And just to add that when I was little- pre teen I wanted to be a writer, and now as a menopausal woman I am! And that’s just another nugget of wisdom I’ve learnt along the way. When you are in menopause, ask your maiden self what she wants to do.  She like Persephone is wise. If you can ask your maiden self, or remember back to what you liked to do as a pre- teen, and then do that!  It’s worked for me and many others I know.

So I hope this piques some curiosity and interest in our play, What Lies Beneath. It is as I said a lament and a celebration and you are all invited.

When are where can people see it?

It’s on as part of Melbourne Frings at the Explosives Factory, Theatre Works from October 14- 18. So, it finishes on World Menopause Day- how perfect is that! Come and celebrate the day with us!

Tickets: https://www.theatreworks.org.au/2025/what-lies-beneath

Fundraising to support the Creative Development of the play: https://artists.australianculturalfund.org.au/s/project/a2EMn00000QzM33/what-lies-beneath